Tobacco infused rum

[Count Silvio]

Is tobacco infused rum actually sold anywhere or does it have to be made? If it has to be made how would one go on about it. I assume I would have to have some dried tobacco leaves for starters?

What about tobacco bitters?

[paulipbartender]

I understand the common method is to steam open a cigar and place it into the bottle. It won't need long though - depending on a wide range of factors, not more than a fortnight. Keep checking it every day

[Count Silvio]

Thanks Paul. What rum would you recommend for the infusion? I would imagine a light bodied and not heavily aged rum would be quite good for this experiment, something from havana club perhaps?

I am trying to recreate this cocktail from Floridita:

Tobacco Old Fashioned

Havana Club 7yo stirred with tobacco infused rum, sugar syrup and bitters.

For the bitters, standard Angostura bitters or can I use Campari incase I can't find Angostura?


By the way for an interesting bitters recipe check out Tiare's website: Banana-Tobacco Bitters! It is about halfway down the page.

[Capn Jimbo]

Tell me, I'm under the impression that tobacco (in any form) is a carcinogen. True, and/or have you considered this factor?

[Count Silvio]

I am not sure but you are probably right, that tobacco is carcinogenic in any form, but I would imagine infusing a cigar for a certain period of time is not nearly as harmful as actually smoking one. Furthermore only small amounts are used in a cocktail, unless of course I end up liking it too much and destroying the entire bottle because of it .

To answer your question, no I did not consider the carcinogen factor but then again I never do when I grill a steak...

[Capn Jimbo]

The reason I asked is that I work as a hospice RN and see the sad outcomes of tobacco. Most people understand that smoking tobacco does indeed carry a high risk of lung cancer especially. What is not so well known is that so-called "smokeless" tobacco is of equal or higher risk for oral and esophogeal cancers!

Here's some disturbing facts re tobacco used for chewing (oral):

Chewing tobacco and snuff contain 28 carcinogens (cancer–causing agents). The most harmful carcinogens in smokeless tobacco are the tobacco–specific nitrosamines (TSNAs). They are formed during the growing, curing, fermenting, and aging of tobacco. TSNAs have been detected in some smokeless tobacco products at levels many times higher than levels of other types of nitrosamines that are allowed in foods, such as bacon and beer.

Other cancer–causing substances in smokeless tobacco include N–nitrosamino acids, volatile N–nitrosamines, benzo(a)pyrene, volatile aldehydes, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, crotonaldehyde, hydrazine, arsenic, nickel, cadmium, benzopyrene, and polonium–210.

All tobacco, including smokeless tobacco, contains nicotine, which is addictive.

Interestingly a single cigar contains more carcinogens than an entire pack of cigarettes. By infusing rum with say, a cigar, you can be sure that you will absorb WAY more carcinogens than smoking a pack of cigarettes, especially considering that while most of the carcinogens in a pack of cigarettes are lost in the smoke, none of them are when infused. You can be quite sure that soaking the cigar in rum will effectively extract all the bad stuff and insure you will drink it...

Ouch.

Personally, I think infusing rum with tobacco is a highly risky practice.

[Count Silvio]

Well, I'm not too concerned about this experiment yet, considering it is one cigar in a whole bottle of rum from which only a measure is used in a cocktail. Even if you drink more than one cocktail, it is unlikely you drink the entire bottle yourself during one day. Even then it would equal to smoking 1 pack of cigarettes or 1 cigar on one day, which is unlikely to cause any long term illness.

The risks you mentioned are usually a result of long term smoking which will apply if this experiment is practiced on a more common basis. On another note, I doubt I will be spending my precious habanos very often for this expriment of combining two vices even if it is a great success.

Thank you for your concern, however.

Edit: Some people think using alcohol is a highly risky practice, occasional or regular.

[JaRiMi]

Edit: Some people think using alcohol is a highly risky practice, occasional or regular.

And alcohol is also listed as a major cause for oral cancer, as a matter of fact. For the record, I have never smoked (anything) in my life - alcohol is vice enough for me..

[Capn Jimbo]

Points well taken friends. Interesting points of view. It is certainly true that alcohol - particularly in excess - can lead to erosion and cancers of the oral-esophogeal route. I see plenty of that in my practice. I've come to terms myself based on the data that alcohol - in moderation - is really quite a low risk.

The same is not true of tobacco in any form or by any route. All it takes is for the carcinogen to modify just one cell in your body. And some of us possess genes that make us very susceptible to even very limited exposure to carcinogens in tobacco.

A cigar contains more carcinogens than a pack of cigarettes. It is not simply an equivalent. And it is VERY important to note that via the route of smoking, most of these carcinogens are lost to the atmosphere and never enter the body. Without any data in front of me, I'll take what I consider my worst case smoking analysis, and assume that 10% of the available carcinogens are absorbed. I daresay the actual amount absorbed by smoking is much less than that.

Infusion is quite another matter.

Most if not all of the carcinogens will infuse into the rum and will accordingly be taken into the body. Based on my assumption this is more like a carton of cigarettes at the least, and very likely much more. Based on about 24 ounces per 750 ml bottle of rum, 10 packs of cigarettes per carton, and 20 cigarettes per pack: a two ounce drink would be at least the equivalent of smoking 16 cigarettes in 20 minutes!

I sincerely believe the real number is higher. An interesting discussion.

[Capn Jimbo]

Tobacco Infused Rum: a work in progress...

Please forgive me for rattling on, but as a BSN/RN hospice nurse, I have a special interest in this subject. The case gets worse...

Nicotine in large cigar: 400 mg
Nicotine in cigarette: about 2 mg

Worse, cigars are "fermented" or aged, and accordingly contain a much larger percentage of the really bad stuff - TSNA's (tobacco-specific nitrosamines). So not only does a cigar contain relatively huge quantities of nicotine and carcinogens, but those carcinogens tend to be the very worst ones.

Chewing tobacco leads to greatly increased rates of oral/esophogeal cancer (over smoking). On a dose-for-dose basis (smoking vs smokeless), orally delivered smokeless tobacco delivers 3 to 4 times the nicotine (and other substances) compared to smoking. Worse yet, the carcinogens and nicotine from smokeless stay in the blood stream longer, and are delivered to more cells in the body.

So let's do the math:

Cigars deliver 200 times the nicotine of a cigarette if smoked.
Multiply times at least 10 for increased carcinogens infused into rum and delivered (see above).
Multiply times 3 to 4 for delivery by the oral route, and more for gastic delivery.
Multiply times an X-factor for remaining in the blood stream longer. And last...
Multiply times a Y-factor for containing much more of the worst TSNA's.

I'm sure you get the point.

I'd hate to estimate the real delivery of nicotine and carcinogens delivered by even a single infused cigar. I believe my estimate of one drink being the equivalent of smoking 16 cigarettes in 20 minutes is way low, even without considering the additional TSNA's and their increased time in the blood stream.

Mind you, I have no problem with those who wish to try tobacco/cigar-infused rum, but I would feel extremely remiss if I failed to point out the substantially increased risk of this method of delivery. The notion that such an experiment is relatively benign, or that minimal amounts of nicotine and deadly carcinogens are present in tobacco-infused rum appears to fail rational analysis.

But it sure sounded good!

[klinnt]

Thanks Paul. What rum would you recommend for the infusion? I would imagine a light bodied and not heavily aged rum would be quite good for this experiment, something from havana club perhaps?

I am trying to recreate this cocktail from Floridita:

Tobacco Old Fashioned

Havana Club 7yo stirred with tobacco infused rum, sugar syrup and bitters.

For the bitters, standard Angostura bitters or can I use Campari incase I can't find Angostura?


By the way for an interesting bitters recipe check out Tiare's website: Banana-Tobacco Bitters! It is about halfway down the page.

The cocktail sounds really good! With all the components that you mentioned, I'm sure it taste excellent! An awesome experiment.

[Capn Jimbo]

The juxtaposition of the last two posts is breathtaking. Delicious? Give my best to your oncologist, lol...

[dirtychef72]

I don't think you would want to use a whole cigar. I had some infused tequila margarita and talked to the bartender about it. They use 1 tobacco leaf and it is only in the tequilla for 2 days. It adds a large scent difference but not much in a nose closed taste test. I don't smoke and did not get a "buzz" from nicotine. I think the amount of infussion time makes a big difference

[Capn Jimbo]

Chef, you really need to re-read what I consider the best known facts about the infusion of tobacco, especially that of cigars. Keep in mind that tobacco leaves are well fermented. From an earlier post...

Cigars deliver 200 times the nicotine of a cigarette if smoked.
Multiply times at least 10 for increased carcinogens infused into rum and delivered (see above).
Multiply times 3 to 4 for delivery by the oral route, and more for gastic delivery.
Multiply times an X-factor for remaining in the blood stream longer. And last...
Multiply times a Y-factor for containing much more of the worst TSNA's.

If you think a "single leaf" of cigar tobacco is benign, I believe you are sadly mistaken. I believe it is an underestimate to guesstimate the equivalent of smoking say 5 cigarettes in 20 minutes. What makes things even worse is that unlike smoking (where most of the carcinogens are exhaled), by infusion you are guaranteeing that most of the cancer causing carcinogens are swallowed and pass through your bloodstream, body, liver and kidneys.

In my mind this amounts to a non-starter, cute notion akin to crossing the street blindfolded. It's your life, do what you wish with it...

[Count Silvio]

Has anyone ever tried this?

Jade Liqueurs' Perique Tobacco Liqueur was released in 2006 following many months of careful development.

Louisiana Perique is the rarest and more precious tobacco in the entire world. Early French settlers learned the secrets of Perique cultivation from the native peoples, and while their descendents have continued the tradition for centuries, very little Perique exists today. The unique terroir of the Mississippi River gives Perique the intense spices and aromas that contribute to the delicate balance of this fine liqueur.

In an effort to bring attention to this endangered tradition, Jade Liqueurs developed Perique liqueur to captivate one's senses with the wonderful aroma of this native tobacco, but in a form that greatly diminishes the health concerns associated with tobacco use. Perique is entirely artisanal in its construction, and embodies the nuances of this ancient tobacco. Perique is best enjoyed in the same manner as one would a fine liqueur or brandy. Due to the difficulty in procuring this rare tobacco, Perique liqueur is available only in limited quantities.

http://www.bestabsinthe.com/perique.htm

This liqueur is quite sweet and has familiar tobacco aromas and flavours but not the sort of profile you'd expect, it is not quite the same like puffing a cigar and it is more delicate. Drinking this might pair well with a cigar. Unfortunately I haven't been able to try it in a cocktail.

[dirtychef72]

I'm not saying it is harmless but if 1 leaf un treated leaf is infused into 750 ml if alcohol vs the average of 5 leaves in the average cigar and the time infusing is less, and it is enjoyed in moderation (1-2 drinks per week) the advese effects are not that bad. It appears that your figures assume that a person is going to sit down and drink the entire bottle.

[Capn Jimbo]

I'm not saying it is harmless but if 1 leaf un treated leaf is infused into 750 ml if alcohol vs the average of 5 leaves in the average cigar and the time infusing is less, and it is enjoyed in moderation (1-2 drinks per week) the advese effects are not that bad. It appears that your figures assume that a person is going to sit down and drink the entire bottle.

Hi Chef...

Let me try to be a bit more accurate and specific. First, lets review the idea of infusing a bottle of rum with a single cigar. From an earlier post...

Cigars deliver 200 times the nicotine of a cigarette if smoked.
Multiply times at least 10 for increased carcinogens infused into rum and delivered (see above).
Multiply times 3 to 4 for delivery by the oral route, and more for gastic delivery.
Multiply times an X-factor for remaining in the blood stream longer. And last...
Multiply times a Y-factor for containing much more of the worst TSNA's.

The amount of carcinogens delivered by a single cigar is equivalent to 200 cigarettes if smoked. You can multiply that by at least 40 times based on the infusion and direct delivery into the stomach and small intestine. Call that the equivalent of the nicotine in 8000 smoked cigarettes. Divide that by five (the number of leaves in a cigar), and again by 25 (number of drinks in a 750ml bottle) and your question is answered...

A single leaf of cigar tobacco infused into a single bottle of rum would rougly deliver the carcinogens inhaled by smoking 64 cigarettes. BTW, this does not include the factors of additional time in the bloodstream or the fact that fermented cigar leaves contain the worst TSNA's (carcinogens).

Please! Do not deceive yourself. Infusing rum with cigar tobacco may sound romantic and "neat", but it poses tremendously higher risk. In your example you'd be taking in the carcinogens - directly into your bloodstream (delivered to every cell in your body) - to the tune of 128 smoked cigarettes per week. That my friend, is neither safe nor trivial.